I can't help but take a sort-of census on who here is a vegetarian or vegan... I'm only interested because in my experience most "gothly" people are very tough and gory on the outside, but compassionate and considerate on the inside.... especially towards animals. I want to see if I'm making the right conclusions.
I can't help but take a sort-of census on who here is a vegetarian or vegan... I'm only interested because in my experience most "gothly" people are very tough and gory on the outside, but compassionate and considerate on the inside.... especially towards animals. I want to see if I'm making the right conclusions.
I've noticed as you said to about the facade of gore mentioned. well..... i tried being a vegetarian but..... i like eating lamb to damn much the rawer the better. And sense i am eating lamb i might as well let myself have a hamburger or a nice dripping with blood steak from time to time. You say thats cruel do you? well its your right and i can see your view on it, but i also think it makes more sense to eat meat and that cruelty has nothing to do with it. Its unhealthy to eat to much meat, but I don't think anyone can say its health to no eat any meat. I try my damnest to eat organic foods and stay away from meat thats been comes from drugged animals, but to avoid meat compleatly .... damn....... your missing out.
I've noticed as you said to about the facade of gore mentioned. well..... i tried being a vegetarian but..... i like eating lamb to damn much the rawer the better. And sense i am eating lamb i might as well let myself have a hamburger or a nice dripping with blood steak from time to time. You say thats cruel do you? well its your right and i can see your view on it, but i also think it makes more sense to eat meat and that cruelty has nothing to do with it. Its unhealthy to eat to much meat, but I don't think anyone can say its health to no eat any meat. I try my damnest to eat organic foods and stay away from meat thats been comes from drugged animals, but to avoid meat compleatly .... damn....... your missing out.
Just an observation While at a huge family Barbeque recently I watched the toddlers running around very closely (the 2-4 year old range) When left to their own devices they continually chose the fresh fruit that was laid out-{watermelon, canteloupe, pineapple, grapes etc...} and they generally had alot of fun and were a joy to have around. It wasn't until some of the parents made up plates for them and encouraged them to eat, or poured sweetened juices in their safety cups that I noticed irritable behaviour. I often wonder that bad eating habits are a learned thing and that cooked food in general is addictive, considering the additives and spices that are required to make it palatable. Many in raw food circles claim that cooked food addiction is the hardest addiction to kick and is ingrained in our psyches from a very early age
Just an observation While at a huge family Barbeque recently I watched the toddlers running around very closely (the 2-4 year old range) When left to their own devices they continually chose the fresh fruit that was laid out-{watermelon, canteloupe, pineapple, grapes etc...} and they generally had alot of fun and were a joy to have around. It wasn't until some of the parents made up plates for them and encouraged them to eat, or poured sweetened juices in their safety cups that I noticed irritable behaviour. I often wonder that bad eating habits are a learned thing and that cooked food in general is addictive, considering the additives and spices that are required to make it palatable. Many in raw food circles claim that cooked food addiction is the hardest addiction to kick and is ingrained in our psyches from a very early age
My last comment has been edited. I'm pretty annoyed about that because, whilst it mentioned some pretty gross facts about the human body, it was done with the correct medical language.
My last comment has been edited. I'm pretty annoyed about that because, whilst it mentioned some pretty gross facts about the human body, it was done with the correct medical language.
it's not so much about meat, that's needed in a childs' diet, it's about the right kind of fats. You really can cause a baby to have SERIOUS health issues, if you withdraw proteins and fats. most of our brains are made up of fat. it's just a part of life we need. *mini rant over, i'm going to eat my rice now*
it's not so much about meat, that's needed in a childs' diet, it's about the right kind of fats. You really can cause a baby to have SERIOUS health issues, if you withdraw proteins and fats. most of our brains are made up of fat. it's just a part of life we need. *mini rant over, i'm going to eat my rice now*
GM timed out on me and erased my original message Aaaarrrrgggghhhh!
Anyway---Hi GoldenDawn and everyone else!!
I choose to eat Raw because I believe it maximizes the efficiency of Mother Nature's best possible energy--in : to feelings of clarity, well being and health energy--out
It's all about the enzymes that are abundant in raw material and not denatured or destroyed (as in cooked foods) allowing our bodies to FULLY digest and glean all of the available nutrients instead of drawing upon our metabolic enzymes {created mostly by our pancreas} which are needed for the endless healing and performance functions.
Juicing is amazing and should be done by everyone. Carrots form the base of all of my juices, my fave being ABC (apple, beet, carrot)
Having personal control over every morsel of food that enters my body is very liberating. I'm not impacted by the continued degradation of processed and pre-packaged food. The oils (ubiquitous) have changed over the last 10-15 years as well as the introduction of hybrids and GMO's without you having any say in the matter.
I have alot more to say, but I'll save it for the discussions that are sure to follow! Be well.
GM timed out on me and erased my original message Aaaarrrrgggghhhh!
Anyway---Hi GoldenDawn and everyone else!!
I choose to eat Raw because I believe it maximizes the efficiency of Mother Nature's best possible energy--in : to feelings of clarity, well being and health energy--out
It's all about the enzymes that are abundant in raw material and not denatured or destroyed (as in cooked foods) allowing our bodies to FULLY digest and glean all of the available nutrients instead of drawing upon our metabolic enzymes {created mostly by our pancreas} which are needed for the endless healing and performance functions.
Juicing is amazing and should be done by everyone. Carrots form the base of all of my juices, my fave being ABC (apple, beet, carrot)
Having personal control over every morsel of food that enters my body is very liberating. I'm not impacted by the continued degradation of processed and pre-packaged food. The oils (ubiquitous) have changed over the last 10-15 years as well as the introduction of hybrids and GMO's without you having any say in the matter.
I have alot more to say, but I'll save it for the discussions that are sure to follow! Be well.
Ok, I'll rephrase that just for you mos_daft, MY children do need meat. most of the replacemetn foods (seeds and such)on offer for iron and other vitamins which we get in meat, my children will not touch. plus I dont intend my children having to live on a diet of substitue vitamin capsuals and tablets. All their lives my children have been on the lowest percental scale of growth. This has caused the school to have grave concerns, especially over my middle child, but my doctor has said as long as I keep their diet how it is, they should stay at this balance and not go lower. Non of my children are of a size for their age. My eldest child is almost 12 years old, but has only recently grown into 8-9 year old clothing and even then depending on the style this sizing can still be too big. But to give you a small back groudn insight, their birthweights were 2lb 12oz, 3lb 12oz and 4lb 7oz. The lowest weighing two were emergency c-sections due to not growing within me for over 6 weeks. My largest child I was induced early due to the fact she had stopped growing within me 3 weeks earlier.
Ok, I'll rephrase that just for you mos_daft, MY children do need meat. most of the replacemetn foods (seeds and such)on offer for iron and other vitamins which we get in meat, my children will not touch. plus I dont intend my children having to live on a diet of substitue vitamin capsuals and tablets. All their lives my children have been on the lowest percental scale of growth. This has caused the school to have grave concerns, especially over my middle child, but my doctor has said as long as I keep their diet how it is, they should stay at this balance and not go lower. Non of my children are of a size for their age. My eldest child is almost 12 years old, but has only recently grown into 8-9 year old clothing and even then depending on the style this sizing can still be too big. But to give you a small back groudn insight, their birthweights were 2lb 12oz, 3lb 12oz and 4lb 7oz. The lowest weighing two were emergency c-sections due to not growing within me for over 6 weeks. My largest child I was induced early due to the fact she had stopped growing within me 3 weeks earlier.
I'm not vegan or vegetarian but I rarely eat meat (who needs expensive meat when you can get DOLLAR pizzas at walmart?!? Cheap and greasy, mmm)
I am for promoting animal welfare -which actually is different from animal rights. I'm more of an aspca (or spca) person than PETA, especially since peta seems to frequently contradict itself and puts animals raised in captivity into the wild. Ask yourself- you, who are naturally a wild animal- would you be able to survive if someone dropped you into the wilderness?
Nah, I'm for minimizing the suffering animals endure. To expect humans to live side by side with animals without some negative side effects is unrealistic. In any case, considering the horrible deaths faced in nature human methods, when properly executed, are much better. I hate people who are cruel to domestic pets... I did a research report for my speech class on it... had the hardest time not crying while I read out the damned miserable punishments people got for burning a neighbors cat alive. They paid $300 dollars in fines when the owner spent 12k trying to save their pets life. Stupid laws...
sorry.. got off to a rant... hate people who abuse animals... they shot my cat. >_>
I'm not vegan or vegetarian but I rarely eat meat (who needs expensive meat when you can get DOLLAR pizzas at walmart?!? Cheap and greasy, mmm)
I am for promoting animal welfare -which actually is different from animal rights. I'm more of an aspca (or spca) person than PETA, especially since peta seems to frequently contradict itself and puts animals raised in captivity into the wild. Ask yourself- you, who are naturally a wild animal- would you be able to survive if someone dropped you into the wilderness?
Nah, I'm for minimizing the suffering animals endure. To expect humans to live side by side with animals without some negative side effects is unrealistic. In any case, considering the horrible deaths faced in nature human methods, when properly executed, are much better. I hate people who are cruel to domestic pets... I did a research report for my speech class on it... had the hardest time not crying while I read out the damned miserable punishments people got for burning a neighbors cat alive. They paid $300 dollars in fines when the owner spent 12k trying to save their pets life. Stupid laws...
sorry.. got off to a rant... hate people who abuse animals... they shot my cat. >_>
"children need meat in their diet" ~ no, they do not. I have known plenty of people who have been vegetarian, and some vegan, since birth.
"There must be a reason for our canines and inscisors." ~ ah, the old 'it's natural' excuse. Of course, just because we have these teeth does not mean that our evolutionary niche demands them, merely that, at some point in our evolutionary past, they were necessary for one of our ancestor species. There are a number of facets with which our bodies come equipped that were similarly necessary.
The human brain is programmed to prominently distinguish more properly horizontal and vertical planar surfaces that those at angles (because these surfaces would have been the most useful foot and hand holds when we traversed our arboreal canopy environment).
Perhaps we should stop wiping our backsides, go back to forcing sex on women and living in trees? It makes just as much logical sense, because we *could* do that and survive. But that is to leave out another natural phenomenon which we have inherited: intelligence. We are equipped to imagine a better way to live. We have the complex language skills with which to communicate those ideas and the socialisation necessary to implement them. After all, if we did not, then we would indeed still be doing those things listed above.
"children need meat in their diet" ~ no, they do not. I have known plenty of people who have been vegetarian, and some vegan, since birth.
"There must be a reason for our canines and inscisors." ~ ah, the old 'it's natural' excuse. Of course, just because we have these teeth does not mean that our evolutionary niche demands them, merely that, at some point in our evolutionary past, they were necessary for one of our ancestor species. There are a number of facets with which our bodies come equipped that were similarly necessary.
The human brain is programmed to prominently distinguish more properly horizontal and vertical planar surfaces that those at angles (because these surfaces would have been the most useful foot and hand holds when we traversed our arboreal canopy environment).
Perhaps we should stop wiping our backsides, go back to forcing sex on women and living in trees? It makes just as much logical sense, because we *could* do that and survive. But that is to leave out another natural phenomenon which we have inherited: intelligence. We are equipped to imagine a better way to live. We have the complex language skills with which to communicate those ideas and the socialisation necessary to implement them. After all, if we did not, then we would indeed still be doing those things listed above.
Hey injun, I have seen your comments in the forums; I sure wish there were more female vegan goths, grumble grumble! What are your feelings about raw food, especially juicing?? I love my 'cheese' grater and make more than a few interesting raw meals, just am not quite there yet. I wish more veggie restaurants offered a raw meal or two BESIDES just a salad!
~Michael~
Hey injun, I have seen your comments in the forums; I sure wish there were more female vegan goths, grumble grumble! What are your feelings about raw food, especially juicing?? I love my 'cheese' grater and make more than a few interesting raw meals, just am not quite there yet. I wish more veggie restaurants offered a raw meal or two BESIDES just a salad!
Hopeless_raven, to put in perspective where being a vegetarian fits into the einvoronmental issue, the mammoth amount of forest land that has been cleared in order to grow the grains necessary to feed the livestock consumed is indisputable and catastrophic. Deforestation has meant less habitat for our native and migratory species of animals and more errosion issues and less oxygen production. Trees also counter noise and air pollution that corn fields don't. Being a vegetarian (in my case vegan) I am making a personal choice that I don't want to continue to approve of that dangerous trend.
~Michael~
Hopeless_raven, to put in perspective where being a vegetarian fits into the einvoronmental issue, the mammoth amount of forest land that has been cleared in order to grow the grains necessary to feed the livestock consumed is indisputable and catastrophic. Deforestation has meant less habitat for our native and migratory species of animals and more errosion issues and less oxygen production. Trees also counter noise and air pollution that corn fields don't. Being a vegetarian (in my case vegan) I am making a personal choice that I don't want to continue to approve of that dangerous trend.
Streight up carnivore.. Meat is an essential form of protein and the product of life.
Certainly vegans and vegetarians of all types have perfectly good reasons for being selective in thier diets. Sure, I respect them and their choices but it is something I just don't relate to.
For me though, meat is choice. Especially meat cooked on fire. Preferrably freshly hunted and maybe aged slightly. As a hunter and through my own upbringing, I subscribe to the belief that you should never hunt something you don't intend to put to use completely in some form or another. Senseless hunting strictly for sport is a complete waste and therefore unacceptable. There must be an explanation for the drive behind the pursuit of the quarry.
Perhaps it lends itself to our primal roots. There must be a reason for our canines and inscisors. There must be a reason for why, in human digestive systems, meat sustains the body for a longer period of time per meal than any other food available.
As a recently diagnosed diabetic and a "science guy" I tracked blood glucose measurements taken over the course of months. Took measurements at least 8 times a day, (MULTIPLE-OUCHIEES), over the course of that time period and dug into the doctor's library of course materials on nutrition and gastric function and the like. Through the changes in diet, gradual introduction of medication and excersise I have come to some remarkable conclusions. A decrease in carbohydrate consumption and an increase in protien primarily in the form of meats and yes.. vegetables, was the most efficient means of dropping the crucial numbers. The crucial numbers included the periodic blood glucose, the three month A1C (long term measurement of blood sugar), LDL and Triglycerides all dropped dramatically. This was done without the use of meds other than a single insulin sensitizer.
As far as animal rights go, I do think we know enough now about compounds in medicine and cosmetics that we probably do not have to perform as much animal experimentation as we do. I don't believe in consuming something considered to be "intelligent" but also continue to question some examples of this. Not like I'm craving a porp-sicle or anything like that.
Streight up carnivore.. Meat is an essential form of protein and the product of life.
Certainly vegans and vegetarians of all types have perfectly good reasons for being selective in thier diets. Sure, I respect them and their choices but it is something I just don't relate to.
For me though, meat is choice. Especially meat cooked on fire. Preferrably freshly hunted and maybe aged slightly. As a hunter and through my own upbringing, I subscribe to the belief that you should never hunt something you don't intend to put to use completely in some form or another. Senseless hunting strictly for sport is a complete waste and therefore unacceptable. There must be an explanation for the drive behind the pursuit of the quarry.
Perhaps it lends itself to our primal roots. There must be a reason for our canines and inscisors. There must be a reason for why, in human digestive systems, meat sustains the body for a longer period of time per meal than any other food available.
As a recently diagnosed diabetic and a "science guy" I tracked blood glucose measurements taken over the course of months. Took measurements at least 8 times a day, (MULTIPLE-OUCHIEES), over the course of that time period and dug into the doctor's library of course materials on nutrition and gastric function and the like. Through the changes in diet, gradual introduction of medication and excersise I have come to some remarkable conclusions. A decrease in carbohydrate consumption and an increase in protien primarily in the form of meats and yes.. vegetables, was the most efficient means of dropping the crucial numbers. The crucial numbers included the periodic blood glucose, the three month A1C (long term measurement of blood sugar), LDL and Triglycerides all dropped dramatically. This was done without the use of meds other than a single insulin sensitizer.
As far as animal rights go, I do think we know enough now about compounds in medicine and cosmetics that we probably do not have to perform as much animal experimentation as we do. I don't believe in consuming something considered to be "intelligent" but also continue to question some examples of this. Not like I'm craving a porp-sicle or anything like that.
Have noticed though, quite a few "animal supporters" wear animal products eg. leather shoes. Go figure. "
That one always caused an argument between me and my friend at school and through later years. We were both vegetarian, I believe she still is, and until very recently I was (18yrs roughly) but I am now starting to reintroduce meat back into my diet for weight reasons. She became veggie going on about animal rights and it was cruel but she was happy to wear leather saying it was a by-product. I became veggie because plain and simple I hate the taste and texture of meat. I feel that if you become veggie for moral reason like cruelty then you should not wear the by-products either as some animals are still killed just for thier skins. In my case since its due to my taste-buds, it doesn't matter if I wear it or not, as I'm not being a hypocritical veggie, Also I am a mother of three and people presume that since I'm a veggie (its slow going introducing the meat into my diet) than naturally I would bring my kids up veggies, WRONG!! children need meat in their diet, especialy when as small as mine are. Once they have passed the main pubity stages if they would liek to become veggie then, well that will be their choice, but till they are atleast 15 wether they liek it or not, I shall continue to provide them with meat.
Darkranma "Hmm, old fashioned omnivore myself...
Have noticed though, quite a few "animal supporters" wear animal products eg. leather shoes. Go figure. "
That one always caused an argument between me and my friend at school and through later years. We were both vegetarian, I believe she still is, and until very recently I was (18yrs roughly) but I am now starting to reintroduce meat back into my diet for weight reasons. She became veggie going on about animal rights and it was cruel but she was happy to wear leather saying it was a by-product. I became veggie because plain and simple I hate the taste and texture of meat. I feel that if you become veggie for moral reason like cruelty then you should not wear the by-products either as some animals are still killed just for thier skins. In my case since its due to my taste-buds, it doesn't matter if I wear it or not, as I'm not being a hypocritical veggie, Also I am a mother of three and people presume that since I'm a veggie (its slow going introducing the meat into my diet) than naturally I would bring my kids up veggies, WRONG!! children need meat in their diet, especialy when as small as mine are. Once they have passed the main pubity stages if they would liek to become veggie then, well that will be their choice, but till they are atleast 15 wether they liek it or not, I shall continue to provide them with meat.
Outside - you are too much, lol! You know, there are vegan wines and beers, and many types of alcohol that have animal products in them, go figure. I am in a vegan dining club and the more hardcore members research these thuings. I don't drink anymore, so it isn't really a problem. But you have a couple for me today, ok?? ;-)
~Michael~
Outside - you are too much, lol! You know, there are vegan wines and beers, and many types of alcohol that have animal products in them, go figure. I am in a vegan dining club and the more hardcore members research these thuings. I don't drink anymore, so it isn't really a problem. But you have a couple for me today, ok?? ;-)
Yeah, Darkranma, I have a pair of leather shoes and a pair of boots, plus 3 belts and a collar. The footwear is pretty essential really: i've tried all sorts of manmade types: they're not good for the feet and they don't last. At least with one good pair of each, I don't need to get more. I probably should have done without the belts and collar. You can get vinyl or pvc ones, but again, they don't last or stand up to much abuse. I mean no point having a collar if someone can't drag you about by it, eh? Or a belt that can't stand up to someone being clipped to it!
I agree though DocBenway, it's an environmental issue too. I'm not against the use of animal products per se, I just don't want to eat them much myself. It's the intensive farming practices and the way it takes 2000:1 input vs. output of calories, wasting so much oil and causing pollution, in the food industry that bugs me. So much gets wasted too. Animals reared in poor conditions, killed brutally and refrigerated for ages only to be thrown in the bin! It's a fucking disgrace.
But then I just try to do what I can. Reduce my own impact to the barest minimum. You're right though about being vegan: it does just take a bit of application. I loved feeling so in touch with my body's needs. I'm just not able to live like that right now. One day I will again though.
Yeah, Darkranma, I have a pair of leather shoes and a pair of boots, plus 3 belts and a collar. The footwear is pretty essential really: i've tried all sorts of manmade types: they're not good for the feet and they don't last. At least with one good pair of each, I don't need to get more. I probably should have done without the belts and collar. You can get vinyl or pvc ones, but again, they don't last or stand up to much abuse. I mean no point having a collar if someone can't drag you about by it, eh? Or a belt that can't stand up to someone being clipped to it!
I agree though DocBenway, it's an environmental issue too. I'm not against the use of animal products per se, I just don't want to eat them much myself. It's the intensive farming practices and the way it takes 2000:1 input vs. output of calories, wasting so much oil and causing pollution, in the food industry that bugs me. So much gets wasted too. Animals reared in poor conditions, killed brutally and refrigerated for ages only to be thrown in the bin! It's a fucking disgrace.
But then I just try to do what I can. Reduce my own impact to the barest minimum. You're right though about being vegan: it does just take a bit of application. I loved feeling so in touch with my body's needs. I'm just not able to live like that right now. One day I will again though.
Im not a vegan but Im all for animal rights...esp. what Ive seen here.These people need a dose of thier own medicine.....if i could I would each sushi every day...
Im not a vegan but Im all for animal rights...esp. what Ive seen here.These people need a dose of thier own medicine.....if i could I would each sushi every day...
I was a vegetarian for a few years, then went Vegan. In order for it to work, you can't just subtract food from your diet, you have to learn how to cook all kinds of new foods. I bought Vegan cook books and support books, went to Health Food stores and looked for stuff at regular supermarkets. When I went Vegetarian, I actually gained weight and got fat for the first time in my life. It was because I was eating crap food. Now I eat all kinds of Vegis and Fruits, and use all kinds of stuff in my food like Tofu, Seitan, Nutricional Yeast Flakes, Temphe, Olive Oils, etc. Its not an easy transition, but in regards to health, its really worth it. We are trained to like certain foods in this culture but you can deprogram yourself and train yourself to like new foods. Now if I try and eat cheese, which I used to eat constantly, it tastes salty and not nearly as good as it used to. Sort of like when you quit smoking and then if you smoke again it makes you sick.
Its not just important for ones health, however, but there are the Animal Rights reasons as well as the enviornmental reasons. One third of all our resources go to raising and feeding animals for food. Ninety percent of the soy and corn grown in the US gets fed to animals. The number one polluter of waterways is the Pig Industry. You can't really be an enviornmentalist and be a meat eater at the same time.
I was a vegetarian for a few years, then went Vegan. In order for it to work, you can't just subtract food from your diet, you have to learn how to cook all kinds of new foods. I bought Vegan cook books and support books, went to Health Food stores and looked for stuff at regular supermarkets. When I went Vegetarian, I actually gained weight and got fat for the first time in my life. It was because I was eating crap food. Now I eat all kinds of Vegis and Fruits, and use all kinds of stuff in my food like Tofu, Seitan, Nutricional Yeast Flakes, Temphe, Olive Oils, etc. Its not an easy transition, but in regards to health, its really worth it. We are trained to like certain foods in this culture but you can deprogram yourself and train yourself to like new foods. Now if I try and eat cheese, which I used to eat constantly, it tastes salty and not nearly as good as it used to. Sort of like when you quit smoking and then if you smoke again it makes you sick.
Its not just important for ones health, however, but there are the Animal Rights reasons as well as the enviornmental reasons. One third of all our resources go to raising and feeding animals for food. Ninety percent of the soy and corn grown in the US gets fed to animals. The number one polluter of waterways is the Pig Industry. You can't really be an enviornmentalist and be a meat eater at the same time.
